D. Armenta
PlagmanThe Death Penalty: Are you for or against it?
U.S. president-elect Barack Obama, has shifted his position a bit on the Death penalty; he now supports it.
In his memoir, he stated that capital punishment "does little to deter crime."
However, on his campaign site he stated:
Basically, what P.E. Obama has done as a senator is change the criteria for the use of capital punishment by pushing (and ultimately getting passed) a bill in Illinois that requires mandatory taping of interrogations and confessions. Obama met with a lot of opposition from law enforcement, who claimed that the new procedure would tie up investigators and cost a big chunk of money that they didn't have.
This is an issue that more twists and turns in it than your basic labyrinth; should the U.S. continue to execute criminals, and under what circumstances?
Australia abolished the death penalty in all states by 1984 in the wake of the controversial execution of Ronald Ryan in Queensland, accused of shooting a prison guard during an escape; during his trial, the defence pointed out that the guard supposedly shot by Ryan was much taller than him, but the bullet trajectory was downwards, indicating it had been shot from above and a prison guard even admitted to firing a shot in the general direction of Ryan and the guard to prevent the escape.
There has been a lot of speculation that Ryan was innocent of the killing, and was executed wrongfully.
I put the question to you, fellow Orblers; are you for or against the Death penalty, and why?
In his memoir, he stated that capital punishment "does little to deter crime."
However, on his campaign site he stated:
"I support capital punishment for heinous crimes. I cannot, however, support the current system which is rife with error and lacks sufficient safeguards against wrongful convictions."
Source: BarackObama.com)Basically, what P.E. Obama has done as a senator is change the criteria for the use of capital punishment by pushing (and ultimately getting passed) a bill in Illinois that requires mandatory taping of interrogations and confessions. Obama met with a lot of opposition from law enforcement, who claimed that the new procedure would tie up investigators and cost a big chunk of money that they didn't have.
This is an issue that more twists and turns in it than your basic labyrinth; should the U.S. continue to execute criminals, and under what circumstances?
Australia abolished the death penalty in all states by 1984 in the wake of the controversial execution of Ronald Ryan in Queensland, accused of shooting a prison guard during an escape; during his trial, the defence pointed out that the guard supposedly shot by Ryan was much taller than him, but the bullet trajectory was downwards, indicating it had been shot from above and a prison guard even admitted to firing a shot in the general direction of Ryan and the guard to prevent the escape.
There has been a lot of speculation that Ryan was innocent of the killing, and was executed wrongfully.
I put the question to you, fellow Orblers; are you for or against the Death penalty, and why?
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Can you imagine if he'd had been executed?
Kalikapsychosis
Its a big question, with no easy answer, and someone who commits multiple murder certainly doesnt deserve their own life, if death is the worst punishment they could concieve of, it should be given to them.
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See, thing is, I do believe (in Australia at least) that the convictions handed down to criminals are quite often to lenient or soft. Now, this certainly doesn't mean that I'd like to see petty thugs be put to death, but I would like to see the judicial system muscle up a little! Hell, I'll even use myself as an example of how ridiculous things are down under.
I'm a P-plate driver (for those of you not down under, its the provisional licence you get when you turn 17). On your P's you're speed limited to either 90 or 100kms, prohibited from driving certain "high performance" vehicles, and are not aloud to consume ANY alcohol.
I was done for DUI with a reading of .11 (blood alcohol level). Now for a regular driver the legal limit in Oz is .05, so even if i weren't on my P's I'd still be way over the limit. Now, not only was I caught red-handed but at that very time I was driving on a suspended license (for speeding). I went to court and was given a 6month suspension... that was it, I didn't even get a fine! Now, it won't take a genius to figure out that I still speed, and I have even driven drunk (albeit not very far).
So how about punishments equal to the crime?
So yes, I support the death penalty in cases where it would be an equal punishment... though, I think when it comes to ending a life there should be ZERO doubt! That is, the death penalty should only be applied in cases where it is 100% proven that the defendant committed the crime (like I dunno, the murder was caught on tape)... and hell, why not even make the Police a little more responsible here too; see them be held more accountable for false arrests etc.
*sigh* god, what a bag of worms this turned out to be lol
Potter in a Harry
Obama's oratorical skills get better all the time. He supports capital punishment for heinous crimes? What a revelation. Well it's not. It's a no-brainer. As if he'd support it for any other crime. It's not like he's going to support it for jaywalking or any non-heinous crime.
But he can't support the current system because it's rife with errors and lacks sufficient safeguards against wrongful convictions? ??? If he stays in term for 8 years he'll be able to say the same thing if you take democracy into account. Certain sections of the people will find errors with it and certain people will say there's no such thing as a safeguard against a wrongful conviction.
This post will show you exactly how democracy works. Some people will be for capital punishment. Some people will be against capital punishment. Then politicans will say, let the people decide. Yet the people are divided. As they always are. So at the end of this post you'll find that we're no closer to finding out anything about capital punishment other than some people agree with it and some don't. And the people running US states will decide on behalf of divided people and say the voice of the people has spoken. The divisive and undecided voice of the people has spoken and therefore we will decide. So in some states the death penalty stands. In others it doesn't. Because the voice of the people has said so, according to those who disregard the undecided and contradictory voice of the people.
Oh, I'm for capital punishment. For women who abort. Just kill them and let God decide afterwards. (That's another joke).
I would have made a great politician. I can justify anything.
Anyway D Armenta. At least you get jokes. Thought I'd brighten up your day since the people have decided I can't write.
Next topic? Are you for or against democracy and why?
Have fun on the drums and keep banging to your own tune.
Is Why
My country demanded my service in the military, just prior to entering into a war in Vietnam, and taught me the mechanics of killing. I went to Vietnam as a Marine and fought as ordered, but I could never shake the initial uneasy feeling that what I was doing was morally wrong: killing strangers defending their homeland and families.
The excitement and rush of combat can't be duplicated with drugs, I tried, and the truth was, l longed for the rush. Paradoxically, to do that, I had to disassociate from my innate morality and therein lay the problem, isn't that akin to being psychopathic? When I returned back to the USA, I experienced great trouble trying to turn off that longing for the rush, particularly when confronted by aggression, I always ran to it, never from it.
So, I am not conflicted about killing anyone that has taken or ruined a life; execution is cold blooded murder, a revenge killing if you will and cheaper than preserving the culprit in a concrete kennel. But, . . . wrong.
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However, I would like to see those who commit outrageous crimes 'done away with' it may not deter others but at least it stops possible re-offences by criminals deemed rehabilitated who, in fact, are not, and are released onto an unsuspecting public.
Known terrorists I have no sympathy for.
It is a difficult problem and I am relieved to hear of the execution of some but saddened by the execution of others (e.g. the one of two twins sentenced to death, in Singapore) and executed for a drug crime of relative insignificance when it comes to truly evil people, when others who commit far more heinous crimes are allowed their freedom.
I feel there is far too much sympathy in the community for those facing the death penalty who cry foul, foul, without being fully apprised of the facts.
This is really too big an issue to be dealt with by a blog, but, foolishly, I have felt obliged to have some input, especially due to the book I am reading, which was given to me, and much of which I find strangely disturbing.
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Factual error: Ronald Ryan was executed in Victoria 1967. He was buried in the ground of Pentrige Gaol in an unmarked grave.
This was the last man executed in Australian.
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I am more a believer in solitary confinement. I could not think of a more severe punishment than sitting in a tiny concrete cell on your own for 23 hours a day without a single person to talk to.
Although being human, I'm sure if it was a member of my family who was brutalised and murdered I would most likely change my position as I'm sure most people would.
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I have always been - and will always be - against the death penalty. As Nevar mentioned above, killing someone for a crime they commited is really revenge killing.
I am sure if someone murdered one of my family or close friends, I would want them dead. There are many cases where victims family's have said it really didn't change anything.
Personally, I think I would rather be dead than spend the rest of my life behind bars so perhaps lifetime prison is a harsher penalty.
A correction on Damo's point - Ronald Ryan was executed way back but capital punishment was still law in many States long after his execution. It was only that no-one was given the death penalty after him.
Freedom in a Fishbowl
I think overall I am against the death penalty - mostly based on my distrust of the legal system and lack of faith in human competence and diligence. You could never be sure the right person is convicted, that the facts are all there, what politics are being played....
Although, if a member of my family were the victim of a terrible offence, I would want blood.
I would like to see a system that let the victim or their family, decide on (& even implement) the punishment - maybe that would deter criminals..?
The distance between the dates of last execution and when the laws were removed from the books is telling. Though the law was there it was not being used. Removing from the law books became a matter of formality.
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1-Ronald Ryan was executed in Victoria not Queensland.
2-NSW not Queensland was the last state to abolish the death penalty.
3-Queensland abolished the death penalty in 1922. Before Ryan was born I think. To say that QLD abolished the death penalty in 1984 is dead wrong.
4-The year was 1985 when NSW abolished the death penalty (for piracy and treason only. Murder was off the books for decades)
My point is one of accuracy.
If the information is wrong then it is wrong.
You cannot really discuss situation if what is presented as the facts of the case are inaccurate.
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"Factual error: Ronald Ryan was executed in Victoria 1967. He was buried in the ground of Pentrige Gaol in an unmarked grave.
This was the last man executed in Australia."
I am not responsible for the inference anyone draws from what I write.
I was correcting so pretty large inaccuracies.
Wrong states associated with wrong years and wrong events.
I prefer that if history is used as an example that it is quoted accurately.
I am not responsible for the inference anyone draws from what I write.
I was correcting so pretty large inaccuracies.
Wrong states associated with wrong years and wrong events.
I prefer that if history is used as an example that it is quoted accurately.
How do you right the situation if you put the wrong man to hang?
And what gives a man the right to end another's life?
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Cibby, absolutely agree. What I am wondering is, with new technological advances in DNA/forensics testing, could absolute proof now be established?
Damo wrote a good post about DNA testing in Oz that points out how the system can become backlogged easily by lawyers looking for loopholes; 7000 cases in his report. Pretty staggering.
Kleo-Yes, it's such a subjective area, isn't it? You see death as a release, and looking at some of the people on death row I imagine they would too..but then Janet says
Alt_Ed and Katyzzz also make good points on the system being too soft in some cases, and I totally agree that law enforcement should also be held accountable; there are so many factors that are beyond the control of the general public when it comes to police officers: personal politics, grudges, or prejudices; the need or pressure to "fatten up" the amount of arrests made, etc. I'll have to check out that book, Katyzzz-thank you.
David, hahahahaha!! I expected no less from you. Yes, P.E. Obama's talent for painting broad strokes about issues and managing not to commit himself into any corners has worried me from the very beginning--but then most of you know that I am very much FOR democracy as it was originally intended, which is why I continually support Ralph Nader. **By the way, would anyone care to prove their ignorance by telling me I'm wasting my vote? Hah? Anyone???
I was reading my favorite political humor magazine the other day and saw a quote from the editor that made me think of you, David. It was in reference to a controversial article about the troops in Iraq that generated literally tons of hate mail (-and if you and Damo feel like you're being ganged up on, check these guys out) --the comment asked if the liberals had finally had enough of the (liberal but brutally honest)magazine's shit, and this was the editor's answer:
I love the Beast. It's brutally nonpartisan. I love honesty, period.
You can write and you know it well.
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That was a very honest and thoughtful answer; being a 10-year veteran myself I can relate to the "rush" you describe, although my involvement was in a country that had severe civil unrest, not sanctioned combat. I found, years later, that the "rush" for me was being a part of a very capable team that could handle any emergencies together flawlessly, without the civilian baggage of gender or racism or personal prejudice getting in the way. We were all good at what we did, could depend on one another, and we knew it. I miss that too.
Yes, killing is wrong and yes, the pragmatic view is that some incorrigibles simply cannot function in society-- ever. What to do with them? I don't know either.
Ruby--well, I guess it depends what you'd call a developed nation; I consider Japan to be one, yet they still have the death penalty.
As David pointed out, the U.S. is very divided on the issue, with some states having it and some not. His other point-and my fear- is that our rapidly disappearing democracy here will be stolen right out from under our fat and complacent noses and our government will be dominated by amoral, hawkish megalomaniacs who have no more regard for human life outside their own circle than a sociopath.
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Then I remember seeing Jeffrey Dahmer's agony in court, begging for his own death because he knew something was wrong with him, and the anguish of the families of his victims as they each addressed him in the courtroom. Some were out for revenge, yet others said that his death wouldn't bring their loved ones back.
I guess the question is: does revenge make things right again?
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I always appreciate people I have something to learn from.
Rachel and Cheryl--let the punishment fit the crime, something like that? Might work, but again--would it bring satisfaction or change things back to the way they were? I imagine there would be a momentary satisfaction for some in executing the killer of their loved one, but what then? Would they feel remorse later in becoming a killer themselves? Depends on the individual, I guess.
I completely share the distrust in the legal system that Rachel, Alt_ed and Katyzzz have expressed.
Cass-good points, but an attorney could apply the same question:
Yes, it's a complicated issue all right. Thank you everyone, for your insights.
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S.L.--from what I've read, a lot of prisoners actually are raped with broom handles --or worse--in prison. Could that be more fitting than death in some cases?
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Don't pick on Damo. He's a very intelligent person. He has very different views than I do, but until he's in a position to make the laws that I must live by, I'm willing to live and let live.
Sigh...I wish you two could appreciate each other more.
S.L.--yes, I knew that you were in a rather unique position as the family member of a victim. I didn't want to bring it up unless you wanted to discuss it.
Has that person been executed?
Orblers, S.L. has offered us some good insight here. Put yourself in the place of the victims' families. Would your feelings change?
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And thank you for talking about this.
Potter in a Harry
The state won't have to kill them. They'll take their own lives after a while. It is a punishment worse than death itself.
On a serious note, though. I mentioned the film Dead Man Walking for a few reasons:
It is a dramatisation of this debate topic. (A few Orblers would recognise themselves in it).
Characters represent both (a few?) sides of the debate. There are self-opinionated
bloggerscharacters who obstinately refuse to believe anyone else's opinion, and have totally closed minds on all matters pertaining to life and death. And have often counselled God Almighty Himself. There are inquiringbloggerscharacters who are just searching to make sense of capital punishment. There arebloggerscharacters who have compassion on even the perps because they were someone's child once.The sides are shown without the film saying which side is wrong or right. It's worth a watch. Even if it is just for the sqeaking sneakers scene.
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Ever laugh really hard whilst drinking something?
It's not pretty...
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Is Why
or worse, force them to watch and hear . . . Barney and Friends 24 hours a day, most USA parents will likely groan in agreement (OK, so maybe it's just the dads who gave up weekend sports to watch the Barney and Friends show with his toddlers), I remember thinking about suicide after viewing a few episodes with the grand tots.
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Then I come to my senses. People like John Wayne Gacy, Jeffery Dahamer, and the like. These people deserve to die and not by "lethal injection" but as voilently as thier victims did! What mercy did they show?
Crime is rising pure and simple. The prisons are over crowded. The facilities are understaffed and over worked. The public is afraid to say hi to thier neighbor or a stranger on the street for fear of being shot, stabbed, robbed or assaulted. Our law enforcement officers are only bailing a sinking ship with strainers, they make a bust for drugs or whatever and have it thrown out of court due to a forgotten crossed "t" or dotted "i". If the person is convicted they may or may not serve time.
We need the death penalty! We need to have it be known that when you commit a crime like murder you need to be made accountable. Being locked up for me would be torture. For people who have been in and out of prison, it is like a vacation! They get 3 hots and a cot and no worrys about what is going on in the real world. They are pulling ont he State tit and getting better than those of us who work a 40 hour job!
While I know most will say I am an idiot, so be it. But, I have worked in Law Enforcement of many years as well as corrections. I see and know on a daily basis what we house that society dose not want. I see and hear the violence that is committed daily, things that society doesn't believe exist. I have stared into the un-forgiven eyes of a killer and have seen that killer break down crying and soiling himself when his time came. Most have no remorse at the end, they may say they do but how can a person say this just before the drugs kicked he shouted, "I should have killed the whole fucking family!"
Yes to the death penalty, yes to public executions!!!!
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Sounds like revenge to me, not justice.
Whoever fights monsters and all that.
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Oh, I forgot for a moment... you care more about the perpetrators than the victim. That's why you like abortion so much, right?
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Yes, I'm sure those thoughts would enter my head and I may be tempted to exact harm myself if anyone I loved was so treated but I hope that sanity will prevail in the end. I have also heard victims and the families of victims who are against the death penalty so it is not as if the desire for bloody revenge is an innate human characteristic. It's something we can control.
It's not about "feeling sorry" for the perpetrators. It's about how we feel about the acts of murder and rape and torture etc themselves. Either they are wrong or not. If they are wrong then they are wrong no matter who does the killing and no matter who is being killed.
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you". (Frederich Nietzsche)
Potter in a Harry
And then the murderer was caught. And the murderer was an American. And was extradited to a US state where the death penalty was in force.
It would certainly go a long way to proving how many bloggers do something about a cause they believe in, as opposed to how many blog about causes.
Most bloggers would find another site to blog on. I can't see too many of them cashing in their AdSense earnings and catching a flight to the USA to protest outside a prison with a banner reading 'I blog.' Althought stranger things have happened.
Imagine Orble bloggers' torment at not being able to blog about capital punishment on Orble in the meantime.
Imagine their dismay when they expressed their opinions to bloggers on other blogsites, and the bloggers wrote things like, Jon who? and What is Orble?
SL I think Ruby is suffering from what is commonly referred to in medical terms as Pass.
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No one here is in a position to change the laws let alone someone else's mind. I have never seen a Blogger change their mind. (It must be a blogging trait or one of those selfish genes that I keep reading about.)
It is already down to personal attacks and slogans. Not very impressive. Then again this is Brave New Orble where reasonable discourse is seen as a weakness.
My only issue is the quality of the raw information used to frame the debate.
The integrity of people to report accurately has slipped so severely on Orble that the whole site is little more than another unreliable source of windbags.
It is also telling that no one doubted the evidence that I provided because it was in a table format. Where was my source and reference?
If someone dares correct such errors then it is treated like hostile propaganda. This I find disappointing.
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Are you 'above' this "Brave New Orble"?
Oh if only you could see the grin on my face when I ponder the wisdom of your words... if only!
Here we have what I call evidence.
A map of the world that shows the status of the capital punishment nation by nation.
Blue - is abolished for all crimes.
Green - for crimes not committed in exceptional circumstances.
Orange - No longer enforced but still on the books.
Pink - Legal in and being enforce.
The USA is just one of many nations where capital punishment take place.
If you look on the right hand side of the map you will see Japan.(Hardly a third world nation)
Closer to the centre you have China, India, Africa and the Middle East.
By far the highest numbers being executed are in China.
This evidence can be traced back to its sources and verified for accuracy.
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p.s we have already sorted out the developed nation/Japan thing above. And we managed to do it with anyone being petty, smug and condescending. Try it sometime.
First of all I did not address you so you accusations of smugness can be pointed back at you 10 fold.
Secondly this evidence can be traced through Wiki to its original source and verified for accuracy.
Thirdly I make no claims as to its accuracy. Just to where I found it. If you disagree, do some real work and disprove it. So far you have three cheap shots directed at me without provocation.
Fourthly you obviously lack the skill to engage people without resorting petty insults. I do not blame you for that. You obviously get upset easily and act off pure emotion in times of stress.
My conversation with you is over until you learn some manners.
Potter in a Harry
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Potter in a Harry
Ruby walked in.
The whole conversation turned to bitterness.
Very soon, no-one was talking about capital punishment. Everyone was eithr trying to defuse Ruby, argue with Ruby or work out what Ruby's problem was.
Some of us laughed. We said, this is typical.
Ruby took the conversation to another tangent and argued about the nature of typical.
Some of us left. While we were out of a politically correct environment we had a discussion about Ruby.
We said a lot of things about Ruby that can't be published on Orble, but we all came to the conclusion that when Ruby is around you can't have a discussion about the topic itself because Ruby turns every topic into this is about Ruby's opinion. And that Ruby pays no respect to the person running the blog. In Ruby's virtual world everything is about Ruby and Ruby's opinion.
Finally we got back onto the topic we started on, and all agreed, if ever there was a case for capital punishment, it was Ruby. We laughed because none of us meant it. It was a joke. One that the humourless Ruby wouldn't get.
We decided not to say too much about this on Orble because none of us wanted to be responsible for pulling that fine-hair-trigger that Ruby seems to live her non-life upon. But we all agreed, she is a serial blogging pest.
We all agreed that someone should say something about this. I wondered why everyone looked at me. Well, I didn't really. Everyone knew I would be the one person to act as spokesperson and say / write something everyone else thinks.
Someone said, I dare you to tell her she's a fuckwit on Orble. I said, I'm a bit more subtle than that. I only state the obvious when I'm dealing with people who are unaware of the obvious. Someone said, well that's grounds for stating it. It's Orble. I couldn't argue with that type of logic, but in my defense I said, calling someone a fuckwit, even if they are, isn't going to help the situation. It's only going to inflame it. Someone said, have you ever heard of the expression 'fight fire with fire'? I said I had heard of it but would not resort to such low tactics.
I said I'd write to D Armenta who is not a bitter twisted fuck, and tell her about this, because she'll get it. She has a sense of humour. She is not a bitter twisted fuck who can't read and takes everything personally and thinks everything written on Orble is about her.
Plus, personal attacks on Orble are wrong.
D Armenta. I hope you're not drinking.
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Can we please stick to the topic at hand and leave personal grievances and insults at the door.
D.A. It was me not Janet who suggested solitary confinement and I didn't mention the punishment fitting the crime although I do believe that. Don't worry, you had lots of comments to answer!
No matter what our opinions are and how we THINK we would react if it was a member of our family as it was mentioned above unless you have lived it and experienced it you have no idea of how your feelings on the subject might change. There is always an element of revenge in executions but it is human nature to want revenge. I know it seems trite to quote from a television show but I thought an argument made on "Boston Legal" that seemed to make perfect sense of the argument. Paraphrased from this:
It turns out while the death penalty might not be moral, revenge is. Studies are now surfacing which show vengeance, specifically the self-help kind, is good, healthy even. New findings based on brain scans show that we get a burst of activity in our pre-frontal cortex from the very act of punishing those that break social norms and here’s the best part, that relying instead on the state to avenge our harms doesn’t cut it, that in fact weakens our moral instincts.
According to recent findings at Arizona State University, morality requires people to respond to the quality of another person’s acts letting the state or somebody else do your bidding is in fact moral cowardice. This explains why one can be opposed to the death penalty, and never-the-less delighted when a family member takes justice into their own hands.
Vengeance is sometimes right, the reason we all want people in this situation to go free, the reason we get that little shot of activity in our dorsal striatum, when we think someone in a temporarily insane state putting a bullet in their child's killers head is because it was the
moral thing to do. If it had been your child who was killed, your child’s murderer walked away free, with no consequences, no remorse, you would have wanted to do exactly as they did.
As David stated, there will never be a consensus on this issue. Some will always be for it some will always be against it and I can see merit in the arguments of both sides but as I said my opinion is that of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole permanently removed from human contact is a just punishment.
SL is the only one among us (I think) that has personal experience in this and hopefully none of us will ever be put into her position.
It's really eye opening seeing other people's views and why they hold them.
Potter in a Harry
I can send it to you via private message if you like.
But that would be a redundant exercise. You would have already cut & pasted it wouldn't you? You'd already have been on MSN or Yahoo chatting about it? Emailing about it? Getting onto Jon & Orble about it?
I might even see it cut & pasted on another post by anonymous. The writers' forum perhaps. It's happened before.
Do you honestly think a piece of fiction is something you can take to the Orble High Court?
You don't know my legal background. But if you want to take this matter to the Orble High Court? Go ahead. I love giving people on Orble a laugh.
A man went out fishing. He dangled a line. He got lots of bites. I think Neshke said that.
OMG Orble are going to take this seriously. OMG what can I do? Ring 60 Minutes. Get the media onto it?
This is so much more an important issue than having a normal convo about capital punishment. Come in spinner!
Counsellor, could you be there? - Max Cady. (Cape Fear).
Oh, just a tip. Before you go all Orble on me? You're not the only one who can cut and paste. And I have access to real lawyers. They have informed me I have a very good case regarding certain things I have been discussing with them in the past few weeks.
To go fishing, worms are good. All you need is someone prepared to open the can of worms.
D Armenta. If you like, I can repost my comment in bold. I rest my case your honour.
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Potter in a Harry
I'm trying to stay on track. Ruby keeps taking things off track.
My theory is this. D Armenta loves a good laugh. But we're on different time zones. So I'll humour Ruby. So that when D Armenta wakes up and reads the comments, she'll piss herself laughing.
It appears that Ruby can't distinguish between fiction (creative) writing and real writing. Everything on Orble seems so serious to her. So in order to accommodate her I write outlandish things. Ruby takes them seriously. It's basically my response to certain bloggers claims that I can't write.
I want to kill you Cheryl.
I'm serious. I'm going to ask Ed how to find out where someone lives by accessing their ISP details. Then I'm going to post those details on Orble so that when I do kill you, I'm going to claim that anyone could have worked out where you live. Even Ruby.
Does anyone actually see how absurd the net is?
I wouldn't bother killing Ruby. That's about as challenging as killing someone whose already had a lobotomy.
What is fiction and what is fact? History has been distorted. The Bible is lies. Nothing is right. Nothing is wrong. Therefore I can write whatever I like on here as long as I stick to Orble's rules.
I like Ruby. She sounds like the type of person i'd like to take home to meet my mother and have a discussion about Freud and Neschke.
I like everyone.
I'm for capital punishment because I think the world would be a better place without Ruby in it.
Was i being serious, or was I being facetious? Am I a creative writer? Or can't I write?
Oh I see this is about whether or not you can write. That would have been the argument had I not anticipated it. Who is a step ahead? Who is two steps ahead?
Should D Armenta be spanked for writing this post? I don't know. Ask her husband. Who knows her?
Who knows anyone on this site.
What are you doing Tuesday?
Liver, fava beans and Chianti.
Potter in a Harry
Have a debate about capital punishment. Chill out. Stay on track.
See how disruptive it is when you take the topic off track?
I think we are really making some mature progress here.
What better way to discuss a controversial subject than to ignore the subject.
I vote for my sense of humour.
And I vote for someone to actually talk about the subject.
What are we talking about BTW.
Ah yes, Is Capital Punishment moral?
Well that creates a real problem for me.
Trained as i am clear thinking am i allowed to mention the question that is being begged?
Whose morality are we talking about.
Of course if we are talking Gengis Khan the answer is "You betcha!"
If we are talking about Mao Tse Tungs morals the answer is, "Don't stop till you hit 60 Million. I show Stalin and Hitler who is Biggest Bad Guy of all."
If we are using Nietzche's morality the answer is, "Definitely for God and then after we have taken his place we will go after all the frail and weak. Because morality is what I make it."
I we are using Hitler's morality, ""It is not an executing it is a labour camp."
If we are using Karl Marx,"After the revolution executions will be stopped. But for the revolution go nuts."
If we are using Orble morality,"You would say that wouldn't you?"
So with out actually knowing whose morality we are dealing with we are always going to argue in circles.
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And another thing - Australia should not try to expand their laws to other nations. They are a disgrace the way they are. Although i respect australia's laws, Indonesian law needs to be respected.
If there is a sign in an asian airport that says 'Drug traffickers that are caught will die' tourists should know better than to challenge their way of thinking.
There is alot of injustice in this world with religious parties always holding on to their false belief of forgiveness.
The movie 'Man on Fire' with Denzel Washington emphasises the death penalty perfectly for me. Washington is holding a sniper at an old folks home. The old man says ' i thought god taught us to forgive'
Washington replies, 'That's god's will. I just make the appointment.'
Potter in a Harry
Glad to see you're finally learning something about the creative writing process.
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It's better to punish them with the life imprisonment than take their life away...
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Debate Fan
Nope, switched to crack about 3 years ago.
I never remove comments. That would be against my personal beliefs.
I'm learning a lot from these comments, and learning is my God. Along with humor, that is--and there's plenty of that here too.
Please continue, everyone, and thank you all for participating.
Kalikapsychosis
The question at the heading of the post -
Is Execution Morally Right?
No. It is not morally right. The human race cannot evolve until it learns to move past revenge and fear, and forgive even those who hurt us, break the cycle of violence to evolve into a more peaceful society for all.
The Question at the end of the post -
Do you personally support the death penalty?
Yes. I am not highly evolved, I give in hard to agression fear and revenge, and cant wait to meet my enemys on a dark night and kick their butts. I thirst for blood on behalf of all the families who have lost someone dear to them. Id laugh while I pulled the switch.
I think a peaceful society would be really fucking boring. Im going to hell.
I believe both of the above answers at the same time.
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Perhaps he deleted it?
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It's okay, as I said, I want David's comment to stand but it does seem a little incongruous that it is permissible to call me a "fuckwit" and a "bitter twisted cunt" but not permissible to turn David's words onto him.
Really interesting. Anyway, I'm sorry that this has happened on your blog. Cheers.
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I'll message Ed and ask him...I sure as hell hope it was him. I should hate to have anyone but me tampering with my posts.
Back in a few days, all--got gigs all weekend and drums to load out...
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Um just to clarify, no I didn't delete my comment (the one to Dave), and, I've also not received any notification to say it was removed... now as D said it wasn't her, and I say "wasn't me", well, were left with one possibility... God!
Mum's Word
Here are my 2 cents worth. I am against the death penalty for reasons already covered.
However, I watched a program on Anita Cobby and her gruesome murder.
For those not familiar, Anita was walking home from work when she was abducted by 5 men, raped, brutalised. Some facts about her murder have never been released.
Anyway, the judge convicted all 5 men and sentenced them to life with no chance of parole. From memory they were all in their 20's.
Apparently one of the men in jail had some revenge exacted on him. Without going into details there was some barb wire and his anus.
Maybe this makes me an aminal but hearing about this guy, a smile crept across my face and a slight nod of the head. It's not right, but for a moment it felt a little satisfying.
I suppose that could be the problem with executions, does the satisfaction remain? Does it help ease the pain?
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I just had to keep scrolling so much I have RSI getting here!
All I really wanted to say is that like David, I was against it, preferring rehabilitation as a model, that is until I saw Dead Man Walking too.
Now I am not so sure and feel that there is a place for it, albeit a remaining tinge of moral discord with the idea, regardless ...
Would labotomising (shock treatments) to proven hard core murderers be kinder?
Lilla ...
Bring it on!
Celluloid Fun
The crimes must be proven without doubt and sufficient evidence before the accused is put to death.
Some people don't deserve second chances, especially if the evidence such as medical records and past history shows they will re-offend and are unable to be rehabilitated.
I was concerned when I found out a known and convicted paedophile/child molester was living in a neighbourhood not far from a local school.
Not that I believe that man should be put to death but if he killed an innocent defenceless child, then the death penalty should apply.
I think all forms of punishment for crimes should be applied on a case by case basis because every crime may be similar but never the same.
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I just asked Jon and he confirmed that admin will occasionally delete a comment if it is really nasty.
I never saw the comment; I'd have preferred to be the judge of that, but whatever...rules is rules.
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Debate Fan
Don't lose hope, stay true to your own beliefs.
Anons.: Wow, you've really got a way with words. Ever think of writing for a greeting card company?
Just so you know, I'm not deleting your comments.
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Debate Fan
There are other options, some of them pretty ugly. There are simple, outpatient-type brain operations, similar to a modern-day version of a frontal lobotomy.
There are RFID chips.
What has to be considered with any solution is the "dirtbag factor"...one has to consider any and all loopholes that could be twisted or abused by dirtbag types in legislation, medical and legal fields.
Having done a fair amount of research into the criminal mind, I've seen quite a few cases where the offenders were aware that something was wrong with their brains, but claimed to be powerless to control their actions (Jeffrey Dahmer is a famous example).
Although the concept of a brain op sounds creepy at first glance, it may prove to be a better solution than execution; even those who underwent the archaic frontal lobotomy procedure in the past were able to work and take care of themselves..at the cost of intelligence and personality.
As for RFID chips, well...there are people in the U.S. right now who have had them implanted in their bodies voluntarily. The "selling point" of RFID is to instantly locate children or adults who have been abducted, but to me the "dirtbag factor" is astronomical with this innovation for the public. On the other hand, if the chip were used only in proven criminals, it might do some good--but the cons outweigh the pros, in my opinion.
What do you think?